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 Post subject: Re: The writing on the wall
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 1:06 pm 
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EUBanana wrote:
pamak wrote:
As for the oversupply of cash and interest rates, I think you have confused things. As I said before, policies trying to help people get a house existed in other countries too. Still, somehow London ended up being the most expensive real estate market to a large part because its City attracted wealthy investors. This is not something I just pulled out of my ass. I gave you a business article which in no way tried to politicize the issue in order to blame the rich. It was not a leftist article. it was from Business week, and it was mentioned inside that the spike after 2005 was to a large part to the attractiveness of the City which brought many wealthy foreigners.


There are such things as 'matters of degree' you know. All countries have planning laws, too. And as I keep saying, there isn't just 1 reason why things are why they are.

However. One thing is clear - if there were no planning laws a lot of that money would've been spent on building, as happened everywhere but the UK. If there was a lot more building there would be a big crash - as also happened pretty much everywhere but the UK.

Mate of mine at work is working on a self build mortgage. It's taken him 4 years and counting so far and not a single brick has been laid, though he does in theory have planning permission at least - for which he's had to go schmoozing the local parish council and everything. Madness.

% of housing built by self build, by country :-

Image

Wonder why the UK is a distant last? The Town and Country Planning Act 1947.

No planning.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: The writing on the wall
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 2:55 pm 
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Quote:
There are such things as 'matters of degree' you know. All countries have planning laws, too. And as I keep saying, there isn't just 1 reason why things are why they are.

However. One thing is clear - if there were no planning laws a lot of that money would've been spent on building, as happened everywhere but the UK. If there was a lot more building there would be a big crash - as also happened pretty much everywhere but the UK.

Mate of mine at work is working on a self build mortgage. It's taken him 4 years and counting so far and not a single brick has been laid, though he does in theory have planning permission at least - for which he's had to go schmoozing the local parish council and everything. Madness.

% of housing built by self build, by country :-


You do not make sense! I did not say there is only one reason for high home prices in London, nor do I imply that the lack of wealthy foreigners would make housing cheap. What I did say (and gave evidence to support it) there was a huge spike after 2005 and I asked you to explain how all these house permit restrictions led to numbers like 29% increase of prices in 2007 as it was mentioned in the site. This cannot be explained by regulations, unless you show me that in 2007 there was a massive change in house permit regulations. But you cannot say it because in reality you are clueless regarding how to tie the regulations to that spike. At first you started with a claim about a 1948 act, then you went to the immigration movement, then you went to the interest rates, and basically you were all over the place without a clear train of thought. You were just eager to use any explanation that came to your mind while at the same time you fanatically refused to accept the only thing that DID change significantly in the period of the huge price spike. And that thing was the flock of wealthy investors coming to London. But you dismissed by saying it was "BS" because I assume it hurt the image of your darling economic model of big finance, even though I provided evidence from a finance business site which was by no means a political site willing to attack the rich or the finance business. And in this site it was said clearly that the coming of wealthy foreigners brought a big rise in the housing market.

P.S By the way, it seems you admit that government restrictions actually helped the UK avoid the house market collapse. Should I assume that you admit that in this case "big government" was a good thing?

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 Post subject: Re: The writing on the wall
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 3:26 pm 
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pamak wrote:
Quote:
There are such things as 'matters of degree' you know. All countries have planning laws, too. And as I keep saying, there isn't just 1 reason why things are why they are.

However. One thing is clear - if there were no planning laws a lot of that money would've been spent on building, as happened everywhere but the UK. If there was a lot more building there would be a big crash - as also happened pretty much everywhere but the UK.

Mate of mine at work is working on a self build mortgage. It's taken him 4 years and counting so far and not a single brick has been laid, though he does in theory have planning permission at least - for which he's had to go schmoozing the local parish council and everything. Madness.

% of housing built by self build, by country :-


You do not make sense! I did not say there is only one reason for high home prices in London, nor do I imply that the lack of wealthy foreigners would make housing cheap. What I did say (and gave evidence to support it) there was a huge spike after 2005 and I asked you to explain how all these house permit restrictions led to numbers like 29% increase of prices in 2007 as it was mentioned in the site. This cannot be explained by regulations, unless you show me that in 2007 there was a massive change in house permit regulations. But you cannot say it because in reality you are clueless regarding how to tie the regulations to that spike. At first you started with a claim about a 1948 act, then you went to the immigration movement, then you went to the interest rates, and basically you were all over the place without a clear train of thought. You were just eager to use any explanation that came to your mind while at the same time you fanatically refused to accept the only thing that DID change significantly in the period of the huge price spike. And that thing was the flock of wealthy investors coming to London. But you dismissed by saying it was "BS" because I assume it hurt the image of your darling economic model of big finance, even though I provided evidence from a finance business site which was by no means a political site willing to attack the rich or the finance business. And in this site it was said clearly that the coming of wealthy foreigners brought a big rise in the housing market.

P.S By the way, it seems you admit that government restrictions actually helped the UK avoid the house market collapse. Should I assume that you admit that in this case "big government" was a good thing?

Those neolib free market worshipers don't yield an inch from their efficient market hypothesis and all regulation is bad. The invisible hand should fix everything and everyone will be rich. :lol:

The topic of this thread is the fact that near future automatisation will destroy almost half of the jobs in US. And the small boys in Europe and around the world will follow.

And there is no new jobs appearing other that everyone is washing each other's laundry. And this will collapse the economy, most people have no buying power to buy the products that robots produce.

The only solution is to have some kind of social contract, to give money to hoi polloi so that the system works. Some thirty five years ago the American middle class was the motor of the world economy. No more that. Voodoo economy did that.

But I can not see anything like that happening. Even Bernie Sanders is more than 100 years late, nothing about robots, but things that have been solved in countries in Northern Europe half a century ago.

A robot tax, or banning corporations having robots. Only individuals having right to own robots that corporations can hire. I don't know. :?

But know I can see that greed ad stupidity will cause an epic scale collapse. And then there will be blood. :(

So it goes.

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 Post subject: Re: The writing on the wall
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 3:43 pm 
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Quote:
A robot tax, or banning corporations having robots. Only individuals having right to own robots that corporations can hire. I don't know.



Assuming technological advances prove to be incapable of bringing a balance in the job market, and there is a need to have some type of regulation to secure the living of people, one possible solution may be the institution of a much shorter workday. If you think about it, we did something similar in the past when we established the 8 hour workday. Perhaps we may need to institute a 6 or 4 hour regular workday and an overtime cost 400 and 500% more than the regular pay in sectors which will be heavily automated. In this way, they will need to hire more workers to do a job which today can be performed by only one worker. In this way, machines will indeed help us save time and improve the quality of our life 8-)

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I have blocked mdhiel and will do the same to any person who may decide to alter my quotes in the future
(see thread viewtopic.php?f=5&p=273210#p273210)


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 Post subject: Re: The writing on the wall
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:10 pm 
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pamak wrote:
Quote:
A robot tax, or banning corporations having robots. Only individuals having right to own robots that corporations can hire. I don't know.



Assuming technological advances prove to be incapable of bringing a balance in the job market, and there is a need to have some type of regulation to secure the living of people, one possible solution may be the institution of a much shorter workday. If you think about it, we did something similar in the past when we established the 8 hour workday. Perhaps we may need to institute a 6 or 4 hour regular workday and an overtime cost 400 and 500% more than the regular pay in sectors which will be heavily automated. In this way, they will need to hire more workers to do a job which today can be performed by only one worker. In this way, machines will indeed help us save time and improve the quality of our life 8-)

I don't think that having shorter workday will be practical for two reasons.

1) The jobs that can be automated, are non-creative repetitious jobs that should be automated.
2) What employer would employ humans for jobs that bots do cheaper and better?

The problem is where to find new jobs released from those automated duties and give them buying power. Humans are not needed in factories, other than in maintenance and security, that are soon enough replaced by robots.

The jobs that are hard to automate are already low-pay jobs, expect the super star artists.

Too bad that there are too many people to start hunting and live off the nature again, more 1000 times too many. And too much of the is nature gone. :(

Bring back the buffalo, bring back the mammoth.

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 Post subject: Re: The writing on the wall
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:31 pm 
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Why were their huge spikes? Because of various means and measures to encourage more lending. Low interest rates, government subsidising mortgages.

Why was there no crash? Because not enough was built. On top of the financial chicanery.

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 Post subject: Re: The writing on the wall
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:32 pm 
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You do realise governments choose central bank policy as well, right? We have interest rates near 0% entirely to prevent a mortgage market meltdown.

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 Post subject: Re: The writing on the wall
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:39 pm 
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EUBanana wrote:
Why were their huge spikes? Because of various means and measures to encourage more lending. Low interest rates, government subsidising mortgages.
...

What was the interest rate before the spike?

And I think that reducing the mortgage interest from taxes is quite common around the world. Without huge spikes.

EUBanana wrote:
...
Why was there no crash? Because not enough was built. On top of the financial chicanery.

Northern Rock, Royal Bank of Scotland. Bailout.

But perhaps the reason was not that not enough was built, but too much. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: The writing on the wall
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:59 pm 
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nero wrote:
EUBanana wrote:
Why were their huge spikes? Because of various means and measures to encourage more lending. Low interest rates, government subsidising mortgages.
...

What was the interest rate before the spike?

And I think that reducing the mortgage interest from taxes is quite common around the world. Without huge spikes.

EUBanana wrote:
...
Why was there no crash? Because not enough was built. On top of the financial chicanery.

Northern Rock, Royal Bank of Scotland. Bailout.

But perhaps the reason was not that not enough was built, but too much. ;)


Jesus H Christ its like talking to children.

WHO THE FUCK BAILED THEM OUT???? A FUCKING CORPORATION? NO!!! a SOCIALIST government!

I've said about half a dozen times that there's all manner of government meddling which hasn't helped. But ultimately it would've crashed and been a lot more bearable without the planning act.

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 Post subject: Re: The writing on the wall
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 5:02 pm 
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EUBanana wrote:
...
Jesus H Christ its like talking to children.

WHO THE FUCK BAILED THEM OUT???? A FUCKING CORPORATION? NO!!! a SOCIALIST government!

I've said about half a dozen times that there's all manner of government meddling which hasn't helped. But ultimately it would've crashed and been a lot more bearable without the planning act.

But what caused the situation?

Greed and unregulated capitalism.

Planning has nothing to do with it. Planning did not cause to bubble in 60 years, but when big boys on the other side of the pond start to make money, small boys follow.


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